4th Guild Toon

I was recently asked about the ability to add a 4th toon to the guild if you have the already allowed 3 in guild. I took the time to discuss this and feel this is the the best course to follow at this time due to guild rep a toon earns as they level with the guild.

I understand every toon builds up rep with the guild as they level and that it is not an easy rep to grind, (unfortunately no cloth vendors for guilds) and I do not want to hurt anyone that has taken the time to lvl a toon in guild and worked to build this rep up, but also would like to bring in another toon to take advantage of our guild level.

At this time I will lift the toon cap to 4 for a guildie that falls under the following criteria.

1)Is in good standing with the guild
2)Has signed up to the forums and posted in the FNG thread
3)Has 3 toons in guild that have all reached level 85 already
4)Is active on every toon to a minimum of 250000 guild pts as can be seen on guild tab under guild activity (weekly)

The cap will be held at 4 and will not be raised if you get your 4th toon to 85 also. If you gain access to having a 4th toon in guild you also agree to make sure that each toon is active and a toon that drops below the weekly active list will recieve an in game mail and will be kicked from guild within 48hrs of in game mail for inactivity*.

*note_-_ if we have been notified of a vacation or short absence from game this will be waived. Short absence will not go over 22 day rule and extra toons will be mailed and kicked at that time as to keep maintence of the guild roster active.

I for one do not like this idea. I don't want a guild full of nothing BUT alts. That was the whole reason as to why we put a cap of only 3 toons in guild, cuz at one point thats all GoP was. Nothing but alts except a few odd balls here and there. Back when we had like 300ppl and found out more then half were nothing but alts. Just seemed like a dumping ground for alts cuz ppl wanted to be able ot see guild chat on all their toons. And to me that isn't a valid reason as to why they should be in there.

As for the current reasonings, becuz its "hard to earn rep for the guild and they wanna keep it"... it's not rocket science, if u wanna keep the rep don't take toons outta guild. Plain and simple. If u wanna switch toons out, here's a thought: Keep a main in, and switch out the other 2. The other reason "wanna benefit from guild lvl".. Same above applies. U wanna take advantage of the increase in xp earned, yadda yadda, then keep a main in that u can earn rep and keep that rep(or hell even keep 2 in) and have the other(s) for switching out alts that u only want in there to benefit from the guild lvl.

The system of only having 3 toons in guild has been something that worked for over 2 years(at least, more then likely longer). It kept our roster clean and kept the guild from becoming nothing but alts again. If it aint broke, don't fix it. But what do I know? I'm just the one that maintains the guild roster, trying to keep track of all the alts we already have(since even tho I've asked ppl to pst or write me an in game mail as to who their alts are, most do NOT).

Don't get me wrong, I get that ppl wanna have all their alts in guild(for w/e reason). Hell ur talking to someone who before cata hit had 5 lvl 80's active on all of them, and about 3 lowbies I was trying to lvl. And trying to choose which 3 should be in GoP, I was constantly changing toons out. I loved having as many toons in guild as possible, cuz I love chatting up w/ all my friends in guild, since I've been in GoP since I first began playing and that was about 4-5 yrs ago. But I understood the point of having a cap, I was here when it was originally set in place.

And I've heard "But it gets us more guildies"... yea, let's say we get 4 ppl who meet this criteria. YAY! 4 bodies... nothing but alts. I get ppl want to see higher numbers in guild, but putting a crap ton of alts in guild is a crappy way of filling those numbers.

I'm actually shocked Angel that you don't want more toons in the guild. I mean you have most of your toons in other guilds that have higher level in their guild level. Wouldn't you rather see the guild prosper threw any means rather than stun its growth? I mean the list of Guild levels can be seen here: http://www.wowwiki.com/Guild_advancement With very few of them actually being bad for the guild. Unless you and Andy are going to kick in your personal money to advance the guild via bank tabs you should be more than happy to have any active player in the guild regardless of how many alts they have. Start taking an account of how the guild money is being spent and just how much profit is coming in from guild members activity there have been days where we have made as much as 50g. Sure making 50g a day will take us 200 days to "afford" the 7th bank tab but its not money that has came out of anyone's pocket. And as we add more members to the guild the number only increases exponentially. With only 5% of money being generated from loots going into the guild coffers with being level 6 that's pretty damn good because when we hit lvl 16 it will be doubled. And by then hopefully we have more members with activity. And since the cap for guild members is 1,000 I don't really see a need to limit the active players from having toons in the guild because its only going to hurt the guild not the player. Players can always find other guilds god knows there's enough of them out there. You should look more towards taking care of the members you have and trying to keep them happy.

Guild money doesn't just come from that little extra we get from the achievement. Most of the guild money comes from donations to the guild bank. Items that generate profits in the AH. Yes the achievement is nice, but its tiny compared to some of the guild AH sales I personal have done in the past just from guild donations. Wanna really help make the guild money. DONATE! If we all donate a little here and there is goes a long way to helping the guilds supply of gold.

As for the 4 toon rule, I'm thinking we should keep it at three. There is no reason to have a bunch of alts kicking around that hardly get played. We are trying to keep the guild active, its not how many alts we have in guild, it how many active players. Nothing is gained if someone have extra toons and they never play them. And yes, I am one who switches in and out toons as I lvl them and I've fallen into the inactive toon issue myself. Yes we can have lots and lots of toons in guild with the member cap, but we is looking for active, participating members.

I agree w/ Shadow. If u want more cash flow, have ppl donate more. Cuz in the end when ppl bring in alts, most of them are lowbies, where when they kill something it only generates about a copper more. Yes that does add up after so long, but not as big of dent as ur lettin on.

And as for stunting the progression of th guild lvl? Having a ton of alts isn't gonna change the fact that we have a daily guild xp cap. If we want to go further in lvl get more active members. In the end once all the 4 toons reach lvl 85, all they got to do(once they finish every zone for questing) is dailies and getting into a dungeon group that u need atleast 4 guildies to participate in, o and then of course when we start raiding(being optimistic on it) and even those u need atleast 8/10 guildies participating. And most of the alts in guild are usually only played a few times, but they continue to play their mains. Which is why I stated if u wanted rep kept and what not, chose ur 1 or 2 mains and keep those in guilds and have 1 slot for ur toons u want in and out.

If u think about it, it's more lucritive for the guild to have guildies start at lvl 1 and go up from there, at least xp wise. And pretty soon gonna be using that extra 4th guild slot just for the same purpose as the 3rd was used. U make it sound that if we allowed everyone to have as many toons as they wanted in guild it would help us, How is it any different from switching out toons? Not like when a toon is switched out it effects the guild xp/lvl. Which is why(again) I had suggested chosing a main and keeping it in guild, so they can get the rep which keeps it so u can still get the BoA's when we reach lvl 10 and 20, which still helps ALL ur toons.

And just a lil FYI. I only have 2 toons in a bigger guild then GoP, my Lock and DK(which Im thinking of taking out cuz Im not playing her all that much). My 83 Hunter is in an Alt banking guild of mine(Lvl 1 guild). My 74 Mage is in the Alt GoP banking guild(Lvl 1 guild). And I have the 3 toons allowed in GoP, my Shammy, Priest and Druid. So u would actually think I would actually be more gunho about allowing all the alts u wanted in guild to put all my other toons in to benefit from our increase in xp since Im decently active on all of them trying to lvl. But I get over it. If I wanted them to benefit from the xp gain, I would just buckle down and switch toons out as needed and keep my main in GoP to keep rep I've gained.

And now since there is actually a guild member cap, as u pointed out fazz, wouldnt make more sense to keep slots open for new members, instead of filling them up w/ nothing but alts? Can I see GoP getting 1k members? Prolly not, but at one point we did have 300 and again was mostly alts that did nothing but sit there. What if we did just drop the toon cap in guild, and it was a free for all. Can u imagine how swamped full of alts we'd be? for ppl that have the realm cap of 10 and they brought all them in guild, and some ppl even have more then 1 account. It'd be rediculous, and then I could see us reaching guild member cap, then where are we gonna be if we have new players wanting to join? I mean if u went and looked now, with accounts in guild currently. We have 23 accounts, and 90members and some of those accounts Ive seen are the same person. so, now lets do the math with current numbers: 23 accounts, and lets say we let everyone bring in as much as they wanted. And lets say each person brought in the realm cap of 10 each. Yea, thats 230members... nothing but alts. and thats just going off 1 person having 1 account.

In the end it doesnt hurt the guild to have toons switched out for the more active ones u play. It actually helps the guild, cuz then ur not just leaving inactive toons sittin there doing nothing except log in every once in a while to keep them from reaching a 22day mark.